Crew Uniforms and Side Arms Questions

[Sky Knight]

I kept one set of my blues and some how they have shrunk over the years. But I did wear them once for Veteran's Day. According to my students the crew blues (circa 1980's) looked like the fatiques the submariners in the navy wear. So if your near whatever the navy has for a PX, you may check there.

That 'flight suit' looks like something my students got when they flew with a company called "Zero-g". The ones they got had the velcro name patch with company logo patches sewn on the suit.

[AE]

On the subject of the MCCM who discharged his weapon in the LCC:

Does anyone recall his name, specifically did it start with "Pav" and rhyme with "lovitch"? That was the rumor when a certain person became Wg/CC at Malm while I was there. I am certain that this is a common myth but just curious if it could be confimed. Should I call "Mythbusters"?

*Names have been changed to protect the potentially innocent, but not much.

KK

Greg Pavlovitch was in the 490th when I arrived at Malmstrom in 1981. If I recall correctly, he was about halfway through his tour at that time. I believe he did leave crew duty prematurely but I don't remember it being related to anything about firearms. If it was, it was a well-kept secret because I was in the 490th! There was, however, a 490th crewmember who was severely punished for "horseplay" with his .38 while topside. His crime: He removed the safety loop from the hammer for a few seconds while chasing someone...and was reported by topside personnel. They say a second lieutenant can recover from almost any mistake but that one pretty much ended up being a career-ender for him.

But back to the topic of actually getting a round off: The story I heard while at Malmstrom was that a 564th deputy discharged his sidearm in the LCC while practicing "quick draw." The victim ended up being the LCC clock (which, in the Deuce system, was different from those in the smaller capsules). I heard they ended up using a clock from our system because there were no more spares and having another one made would have been cost-prohibitive since all the tooling had long since disappeared. So far as I know, that capsule's configuration remained unique until REACT once again standardized all five of the 564th's LCC timekeeping devices. I wasn't an Odd Squader, so this is all second-hand at best. AE

[AE]

As far as the layout of the top jacket, I know that the missileer badge went on the upper right pocket, the SAC patch on the upper left pocket, a wing patch on one shoulder, and a squad patch on the other. Now as far as the name and Air Force tag that went over the pockets, was the name over the left pocket and Air Force over the right?

When I was an MCCM (mid '70s):
The SAC patch went on the right pocket. The missile badge (aka "pocket rocket") went on the left pocket. This is as you are wearing the shirt; one guy let his fiancee set up his light blue shirt one day and she got everything exactly backwards; he didn't notice; did he take flak that day! "Combat Crew" badge went just above the name tag which was just above the right pocket. If you had one, 15th AF Crewmember Excellence patch went above that. On the left, only the US Air Force tag above the pocket unless you held other badges such as paratrooper. We didn't wear squadron or wing patches on the crew blues, but other special patches, such as Olympic Arena, were occasionally worn on the left shoulder. There was never a need for a squadron patch because your scarf indicated that. Scarf colors:

10SMS = blue
12SMS = red
490SMS = yellow (okay, officially gold)
564SMS = green
Instructor = gray
Standboard = white

I was there from late 1981 to mid 1986 and during that time the colors listed above were still used, except for the 564th which wore a red, white, and blue scarf with a flag-like motif (red and white stripes and white stars on a field of blue), and the Instructors (DOT) wore a sky blue scarf with an eagle patch (wings spread and a US shield on its breast). The patches on the uniform were still as listed above, but we also wore the wing patch on the left shoulder and the squadron patch on the right shoulder. Oh, and either the Combat Crew badge OR the Crewmember Excellence patch (if earned) could be worn above the pocket, but not both at the same time (not legally anyway). All this was spelled out specifically in the SAC Sup to 35-10. AE

[njh621]

Still coming up empty on the search on eBay, and I'm about 2000 miles away from the "missile belt", if you will. As far as the pocket rocket badge was concerned, was it the actual metal badge, or was it embroidered on AF blue material? I've seen both, and almost ended up with the embroidered badge, but decided to skip the eBay auction (guy didn't take paypal ). I assume for Titan II crews it was just about the same thing as AE mentioned, with a squadron and a wing patch on the shoulders.


Also, anyone wanna explain the pencil tab patches to me? I was under the impression that the combat crew patch was one of them.

[hockey85]

The pen pocket tabs are worn on the left sleeve of the green flight suit worn today by missileers. The ones who want to wear the pen pocket tabs take the little flap that normally covers the pen holder sleeves, leaving a small patch of velcro where you can put the pen tab patches. They can be anywhere from the traditional missile badge (missileers protesting the stupid space wings), to ones saying the WS they are part of, like "Deuce" or just simply MMIII. Others have insider jokes only people from that squadron will understand. And the list goes on... They are a source of morale for the crew force, but as I say that, Leadership is trying to take them away and make everyone sew the pocket protector back on.

You can see an example on the left sleeve of the Deputy in this picture... http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/ ... 7C-752.jpg

-Cory

[SAC Killer]

But back to the topic of actually getting a round off: The story I heard while at Malmstrom was that a 564th deputy discharged his sidearm in the LCC while practicing "quick draw." The victim ended up being the LCC clock (which, in the Deuce system, was different from those in the smaller capsules). I heard they ended up using a clock from our system because there were no more spares and having another one made would have been cost-prohibitive since all the tooling had long since disappeared. So far as I know, that capsule's configuration remained unique until REACT once again standardized all five of the 564th's LCC timekeeping devices. I wasn't an Odd Squader, so this is all second-hand at best. AE

The dead clock in the Odd Squad is interesting. I recall that one of the 12SMS sites still had the clock, but the second hand was gone. And someone used dymo tape and put the following little poem on the clock (strange, the things you remember over the years):

Hickory dickory dock,
The second hand fell off the clock
If you need to turn the key,
Please contact the SCP.

The clocks were mechanical things, with an 8 day spring. We wound them once a week, and hacked the clock against the WWV HF radio time signal every six hours. In standboard checks, when they jumped the time ahead, you had to remember to update the "clock hack due" time on the panel, or you'd get an error.

[njh621]

Well, still haven't found actual AF issue crew blues, but I'm finding uniforms in other military branches that look exactly like them. A few people had mentioned that the Navy's Submariner uniform looks a lot like crew blues, and now I've found these: ODUs, or operational dress uniforms, used by the coast guard. Is there a possibility that the crew blues weren't just an AF thing, and that it was just something generic all services used?

Here's a picture of an ODU uniform:

[njh621]

Also found this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Blue-Air-Force-Unif ... dZViewItem
Not official crew blues, but it's the same uniform. Hopefully, I'll win the auction.

[SAC Killer]

Still coming up empty on the search on eBay, and I'm about 2000 miles away from the "missile belt", if you will. As far as the pocket rocket badge was concerned, was it the actual metal badge, or was it embroidered on AF blue material? I've seen both, and almost ended up with the embroidered badge, but decided to skip the eBay auction (guy didn't take paypal ). Just chalk that up to the list, along with a 390th SMW patch, and the uniform itself...lol. I assume for Titan II crews it was just about the same thing as AE mentioned, with a squadron and a wing patch on the shoulders.


Also, anyone wanna explain the pencil tab patches to me? I was under the impression that the combat crew patch was one of them.

When I was an MCCM in the 70s, and maintenance in the 80s, we had both the embroidered and the metal missile badge. The miniaturized metal one went on the light blue shirt (or the dark blue wool shirt, for those who remember that one, it was cool…and warm! ), and the mess dress jacket. The large metal one went on the Class A (aka Combination One, who knows what they call it now) blouse. The embroidered one went on the crew blues, greens (aka fatigues, for maintenance), and field jacket. You could also get a fancy silvery embroidered one for the mess dress but hardly anyone wore it. When I was on crew, the regular embroidered one was silver but by the time I made it to maintenance there was a subdued version in black.

[D Preidis]

When I was at Grand Forks near the end of my Ops tour the pistols went away. We were told it was an economy thing and they also did not want to have to reschedule all Ops crews to certify on the new 9mm pistols.

When I was in Titan II at McConnell AFB we not only had pistols but we had two M-16s locked away. The M-16s were removed not long after I started alerts there and we were left with just the 38s.

We used the arms to do our own security checks when the ARTs could not respond to our site in a timely manner.

While I was there one BMAT and MFT went topside one night to run a response and some drunk farmer sitting outside the gate started firing at them with a rifle. If I remember correctly they returned fire and the State Police caught the guy the next morning at the local "Choke-and-Puke" with 38 holes in the side of his truck. He was mad that the Air Force was there in his fields and had been throwing stuff into the tipsy field thus generating alarms.

I really liked the blue two-piece crew blues. When I was a SSgt at McConnell AFB I we had a visit from the Thunderbirds and their troops also used our two-piece blues.

I had just come back from alert and was walking into the BX. I encountered a MSgt Thunderbird guy and he snapped a salute! I stopped him and showed him that he outranked me. He got a good laugh from that one as he did not know there were enlisted missile crew dogs.

In Grand Forks, as an officer, I started wearing the BDUs when I transferred to Mnx but when I was the Acting Chief of Safety the ranking Colonel, the Missile Wing Commander told me to go get some new blue bags and wear them since I had to deal with the Ops folks so much.

I hated them at first (resistance to change I guess) but started to like them and I really liked the blue jacket. It was warm and very comfortable. The Air Division Commander, a one star General who was deployed to the sandbox for Dessert Storm, had the base regs updated so my Safety Officers would wear neon green scarves to indicate our Safety Office and Nuclear Surety (my idea and I liked the color and it stood out). It was pretty neat having an authorized, one-of-a-kind official scarf. I had them made downtown.

The green bags suck, as well as the new badge. The pocket rocket is a piece of history and should be brought back as a sign of respect for missile folks. We were THE front line in the Cold War and should be recognized for our achievements.

[D Preidis]

Well, still haven't found actual AF issue crew blues, but I'm finding uniforms in other military branches that look exactly like them. A few people had mentioned that the Navy's Submariner uniform looks a lot like crew blues, and now I've found these: ODUs, or operational dress uniforms, used by the coast guard. Is there a possibility that the crew blues weren't just an AF thing, and that it was just something generic all services used?

Here's a picture of an ODU uniform:

Those are not the same. If you notice there are no visible buttons on the uniform in the photo. The real crew blues had the buttons showing just like the old green fatigues.

[D Preidis]

On the subject of the MCCM who discharged his weapon in the LCC:

Does anyone recall his name, specifically did it start with "Pav" and rhyme with "lovitch"? That was the rumor when a certain person became Wg/CC at Malm while I was there. I am certain that this is a common myth but just curious if it could be confimed. Should I call "Mythbusters"?

*Names have been changed to protect the potentially innocent, but not much.

KK

Real name, Titan II, mid 1970's:

Captain Wayne Watts was inspecting his 38 at changeover, flipped the cylinder back into the weapon, and loosed a round that struck the LCCFC (the Launch Control Panel for you MM guys) just beside the "Fire Launch Duct" button (pressing this button would turn on the launch duct fire control sprays and hose down the missile).

Wayne was a great guy. I pulled alot of alerts with him on his crew after this incident (I was not on his crew when it happened). He was an ex Jolly Green Giant and C-141 pilot from the Viet Nam era and in the end was RIF'ed. The last I saw him he was wearing E-3 stripes and was being sent to another base as a financial troop so he could complete his final two years of service and then retire. He was a great guy, a very good Officer, and I hope he is still doing well.

[D Preidis]

I did get my hands on a field jacket at Wurtsmith AFB, MI in 1981 after leaving missile ops to return to public affairs. Went from Whiteman(flight jackets for crews) to Vandenberg(mostly no jacket) to Elmendorf (back to public affairs) n3b parka and ended up at Wurtsmith AFB, MI where I did get issued a field jacket with liner. Have made my home in Anchorage Alaska since 1984 and the winters are mostly less awful than No Dak. I grew up in Minneapolis and spent my time in missile ops (involuntary career broadening after Vietnam) worrying about my lack of a "northern tier" assignment. I just knew I would get Minot and after trying to volunteer for Malmstrom and Ellsworth without success I did an end run around SAC and got back into Public Affairs after I got promoted to major. Can't say that was a great idea career wise but I did enjoy Alaska and found a home here. Wurtsmith was nearly as remote, cold and nasty as No Dak and with tons of lake effect snow being on the shore of lake Huron. That was a miserable two and half years and made retirement from the USAF very appealing.
Cheers,
Major T

Did you hunt or fish at all?

I am from Michigan, and left the enlisted force to complete my degree at Michigan State to get my Commission. My wife was an E-5 and moved to to Wurtsmith in 1981 to the Wing CC's office so she could be near me (184 miles from Lansing). My brother was also there at the same time as a 2Lt cop.

I used to go up there on weekends and fish with him for salmon off the two piers there and also hunt. Oh yes, I did get to see my wife when I wasn't fishing or hunting there. He spent 32 years in the AF and still thinks his three years at Wurtsmith were his best. My wife liked it because we could see each other on the weekends.

[D Preidis]

Still coming up empty on the search on eBay, and I'm about 2000 miles away from the "missile belt", if you will. As far as the pocket rocket badge was concerned, was it the actual metal badge, or was it embroidered on AF blue material? I've seen both, and almost ended up with the embroidered badge, but decided to skip the eBay auction (guy didn't take paypal ). Just chalk that up to the list, along with a 390th SMW patch, and the uniform itself...lol. I assume for Titan II crews it was just about the same thing as AE mentioned, with a squadron and a wing patch on the shoulders.


Also, anyone wanna explain the pencil tab patches to me? I was under the impression that the combat crew patch was one of them.

Titan had the squadron patch on one side and the American flag or a specialty patch on the other. The wing patch replaced the squadron patch when you enterred either the Instructor or StanEval shops.

I have a really neat 100 Alerts under Kansas patch that had only a hundred or so ever made (I bought four of them). It was authorized for wear in the wing. I used it rather than my 8th AF Excellence patch.

[njh621]

I think if I manage to get a hold of the right uniform, I might do a little variation to what the Titan II crews actually wore; Squad patch on one shoulder, and wing on the other (provided I can actually find a wing patch, other then that one over-priced 381st SMW patch on ebay). My uncle was in the AF in the 70's, so I'm lucky to have the white on blue name tape with the same last name .