Crew Uniforms and Side Arms Questions

[SAC Killer]

Don't know about now, but in the early '80s the missile maintenance teams (they handled the RV/RS and the can) had to carry weapons. The team chief and the assistant team chief had to carry the M-16 whenever they moved a weapon. Or maybe it was every time they opened the closure, don't remember now. Also everyone who was qualified to open an LF had to qualify on the shotgun. With the shotgun you couldn't get an expert rating, it was strictly pass or fail. Get a minimum number of holes in the paper with 25 rounds and you qualified. A 12 guage magnum pump style with a steel butt plate; kicked like a mule. We had one female maintenance officer who was so small that she could not qualify with it because it would literally knock her off her feet.

However...one of the other mx officers, a dedicated killer of wild birds and an excellent shot, one winter got the minimum number to qualify and then proceeded to use the rest of his GI issue 00-buckshot to destroy the range NCOIC's snowman. This enraged the NCOIC, and he banned the officer from the range. Declaring it a waste of taxpayer dollars to let the guy fire a military weapon, forever afterward he pencil-whipped the guy's annual qualification.

[LA CrewDawg]

However...one of the other mx officers, a dedicated killer of wild birds and an excellent shot, one winter got the minimum number to qualify and then proceeded to use the rest of his GI issue 00-buckshot to destroy the range NCOIC's snowman. This enraged the NCOIC, and he banned the officer from the range. Declaring it a waste of taxpayer dollars to let the guy fire a military weapon, forever afterward he pencil-whipped the guy's annual qualification.

Killer,

The passion with which you wrote this, with such exacting detail, and dare I say just a hint of pride, almost makes me might think it could possibly be somewhat a little autobibliographical maybe

[SAC Killer]

However...one of the other mx officers, a dedicated killer of wild birds and an excellent shot, one winter got the minimum number to qualify and then proceeded to use the rest of his GI issue 00-buckshot to destroy the range NCOIC's snowman. This enraged the NCOIC, and he banned the officer from the range. Declaring it a waste of taxpayer dollars to let the guy fire a military weapon, forever afterward he pencil-whipped the guy's annual qualification.

Killer,

The passion with which you wrote this, with such exacting detail, and dare I say just a hint of pride, almost makes me might think it could possibly be somewhat a little autobibliographical maybe

Nope. Wasn't me. He was a much better shot than me, especially with the shotgun which was his specialty. I hated firing the military shotgun. But it is one of those bizarre events that stick in the mind over the years.

He was in fact proud that he had been banned for being such a good shot, but at the same time disappointed that he could no longer use free USAF ammo for fun.

[ornurse362]

Nah, t'wasn't SAC KILLER. After he pronged my memory, I recalled I was at the range at the time of the snowman kill.

The marksman in question and I were buds. We did a lot of skeet and trap shooting, and went bird hunting. He actually went hunting, I went along carrying a gun pretending I was hunting 'cause I don't like wild game.

There is a follow-on, of a sort, to this story. The shotguns we used were Remington Model 870 pump and the ammunition was Winchester 00 buck, in AA hulls. For not-shotgun folks or those that do not reload their shotshells, AA hulls were the primo empty shells to use for reloading. Shotgun News listed the price of once-fired AA hulls as about $0.05-0.08 EACH as I recall.

We all shot about a box (25 shells) or so of these when we qualified so there was a grundle of shells on the range. Used cartridges (brass from pistols/carbines as well as the AA hulls) were collected and turned over to DRMO for metal salvage, whatever. So, over a relatively short period of time there were thousands of empty 12g hulls in DRMO, listed as "used, poor condition". I guess as loaded shells you'd consider them in poor condition but as once-fired hulls, they were excellent.

Anyway, this marksman and I hied ourselves over to DRMO to put a bid on these once-fired AA hulls. Luckily, before we put in a bid, we peeked into the barrells of hulls. Somehow, all those primo AA empty shells had metamorphisized themselves into crappy hulls (Federal brand comes to mind), of which many were definitely small game or target shells for skeet/trap. Huh, go figure. Be it far from my persona to ever accuse anyone of trading them!

And that's the way I remember how it happened.

However...one of the other mx officers, a dedicated killer of wild birds and an excellent shot, one winter got the minimum number to qualify and then proceeded to use the rest of his GI issue 00-buckshot to destroy the range NCOIC's snowman. This enraged the NCOIC, and he banned the officer from the range. Declaring it a waste of taxpayer dollars to let the guy fire a military weapon, forever afterward he pencil-whipped the guy's annual qualification.

Killer,

The passion with which you wrote this, with such exacting detail, and dare I say just a hint of pride, almost makes me might think it could possibly be somewhat a little autobibliographical maybe

Nope. Wasn't me. He was a much better shot than me, especially with the shotgun which was his specialty. I hated firing the military shotgun. But it is one of those bizarre events that stick in the mind over the years.

He was in fact proud that he had been banned for being such a good shot, but at the same time disappointed that he could no longer use free USAF ammo for fun.

[SAC Killer]

Ah yes, the 870. As I recall there was also a Winchester model shotgun, don't recall the specific model. It was unpopular on the range because it was prone to jamming. When the shotguns arrived, they came with bayonets. Yes, bayonets! Well, we didn't need them, so OMMS mounted some of them on "Order of the Sword" plaques.

[mtluft]

I heard rumors that a MCCM accidently fired a round in an LCC at F.E. Warren (sometime in the 80s I believe). Thankfully, no one was hurt...and after what I heard was a failed attempt to cover it up, it was discovered and the MCCM was appropriately hammered.

On the subject of the MCCM who discharged his weapon in the LCC:
Does anyone recall his name, specifically did it start with "Pav" and rhyme with "lovitch"? That was the rumor when a certain person became Wg/CC at Malm while I was there. I am certain that this is a common myth but just curious if it could be confimed. Should I call "Mythbusters"?

Greg Pavlovitch was in the 490th when I arrived at Malmstrom in 1981. If I recall correctly, he was about halfway through his tour at that time. I believe he did leave crew duty prematurely but I don't remember it being related to anything about firearms. If it was, it was a well-kept secret because I was in the 490th!

I once heard a long and winding story when I was at FEW about a .38, a missing bullet, and a replacement that hitched a ride with a relief crew. It might have been mentioned that the replacement wasn't the standard ball ammo issued to the crews. As for the outcome of the incident, I would have to check with my source to confirm or deny any career ending aspects.

The event originally referenced most definitely happened at FEW, around 1988 if I recall. It was in the 400th after we transitioned to PK, I believe it was P01. I recall the incident well, and the individual well, but best not to name names this far down the line. The best part however is the perpetrator's description of the event. He told me (and most everyone else) that he was "cleaning" (like we ever did that) his 38 and the alarm went off. He was startled and swung the firearm in such a way as to make the chamber lock back into place, and "it just went off". The round went deep into the cabling. He thought he shot himself, and when he saw the gray dust and debris, he fell to the floor thinking it was his own gray matter and tried to scoop it up and "put it back in"! The non standard ammo is part of it, he replaced it with a hollow point on his next alert so that when the 38's were next inspected, obviously the SPs figured out something was up which is how the whole thing came to light. An amazing part of the story is that his MCCM didn't wake up or hear a thing - He was also disciplined and wasn't given the opportunity to make Capt as I recall. Obviousy the hapless DMCCC was severely disciplined, and charged several thousand dollars for cable repairs. He left the AF soon thereafter for Dental School somewhere on the east coast, and that is the last I ever heard from him. A very funny, personable guy with a wicked Elvis impersonation.

Thanks for stiring my memory of this, I've gotten many good laughs over the years relaying it to unbelieving folks.

Mike

[banjodog]

Also everyone who was qualified to open an LF had to qualify on the shotgun. With the shotgun you couldn't get an expert rating, it was strictly pass or fail. Get a minimum number of holes in the paper with 25 rounds and you qualified.

Went to the range one Friday afternoon for said qualification, and put holes in paper as required. There were only a few of us and it was Friday afternoon, so the range safety guy asked us if we wanted to be like Rambo. "Ok, here's how it's done. Keep the trigger pulled back and pull the forestock back after each shot. Like this." (Followed by "I didn't tell you this.")

And a good time was had by all.

[wblakeney]

I had a roommate who failed his yearly 38 qualificaton. Back then there were 6 rounds of 6 shots fired single action and 1 round of 6 shots fired double action. My roomie said he fired all the single action rounds double action. He said he figured that cocking the hammer and pulling the trigger was a double action. Guess being a math major did him in.

[wblakeney]

In response to an old post on Page Two about what Crew Blues were called. There was a White tag on the inside of the shirt near the bottom of the shirt tail right side as I remember it Said "Missile Combat Crew Alert" With the shade number Mine was 1084 but they were alter issues in 1549 shade. If that helps any body in doing a search. I can't remember if there was a stock number on the tag or not.

Notlaw99

My set has this

Shirt, Man's Missile Combat Crew Alert AF, Blue Shade 1549
DSA100-67-C-4195

1969 to 1972 only alert crews wore the blue two piece. Enlisted and maintenance all wore green fatigues.

When I got to Minot I was issued one of the slick green flight jackets like the bomber crews wore but when they ran short they called all of them back from the missile crews. We wore those when the temperature was above 0°.

[Scruge]

In response to an old post on Page Two about what Crew Blues were called. There was a White tag on the inside of the shirt near the bottom of the shirt tail right side as I remember it Said "Missile Combat Crew Alert" With the shade number Mine was 1084 but they were alter issues in 1549 shade. If that helps any body in doing a search. I can't remember if there was a stock number on the tag or not.

Notlaw99

My set has this

Shirt, Man's Missile Combat Crew Alert AF, Blue Shade 1549
DSA100-67-C-4195

1969 to 1972 only alert crews wore the blue two piece. Enlisted and maintenance all wore green fatigues.

When I got to Minot I was issued one of the slick green flight jackets like the bomber crews wore but when they ran short they called all of them back from the missile crews. We wore those when the temperature was above 0°.

We had same jacket, with optical orange reversable lining for when you were on the flight line.
I thought it odd I had to turn in jacket and nothing else upon seperation. I figured someone in supply must of had a deal with a surplus dealer. I don't ever recall the AF issuing used clothing.

[wblakeney]

When I got to Minot I was issued the flight jacket, a parka, bunny boots, a duffel bag and briefcase for the TO. Some people got muk luks instead of the white bunny boots. I already had a set of green fatigues and kakhis from AFROTC and my class As. I think I had to buy my crew blues. We also had a dark blue class B shirt. We got to keep everything except the parka and the briefcase. You got patches and other cloth tags at the BX and the laundry would sew them on for you. I still have those white insulated bunny boots but haven't had much need for them in Houston. I only needed a mess dress one time so I bought my roommates who was leaving the AF. I was a 1st Lt and his had gold 2nd Lt bars so I painted them silver with model paint.

We missile crews loved those flight jackets and were very unhappy when they took them away. The one I had did not have the orange lining. I have seen them in surplus stores.

[notlaw99]

When I was at Malmstrom June 1970 - May 1974, supply did issue some used items. parka, light weight flight jacket, and crew bag [Black Navigators Bag]. The handles were falling off my crew bag, I had to repair it my self by drilling holes through the leather and putting short bolts washers and nuts to hold it together and black friction tape to cover the holes in the bottom. When I as in UPT, we got new items nut I had to tun all of the flight suits, knife, watch, brown brief case, and summer, winter flight jacket and life support items when I was eliminated in the T41 phase. And the sleeves on the 1084 crew blues were too short [31 inches I needed 32] but our crew never cut them off to make short sleeves.

[Scruge]

We missile crews loved those flight jackets and were very unhappy when they took them away. The one I had did not have the orange lining. I have seen them in surplus stores.

Actually orange lining was for emergency use, according to this discription.
http://www.classicjet.com/store/cart.ph ... etail&p=60

[wally]

I was in the first class at VAFB to get the "new" crew blue flight suit in 1989. They gave us two pairs of the blue fatigues and two crew bags.

At least in the Forks, they gave us one of the leather navigator bags (still have it) and the green flight jacket w/your choice of orange or green liner. (I chose green.) We were "supposed" to turn those jackets back in 1992 when they issued us the blue crew jackets, "because operators are the pointy end of the spear, cutting edge of the sword, and deserved nothing but the best." Then why did the label say "Jacket, Security Police, Winter?" Essentially they were castoffs from the cops, because they cops thought the jackets were too noisy and too hard to keep clean. I was able to keep the flight jacket, though, and used it as my alert jacket to stay warm at Ice Station Delta.

I also got mukluks when I first got there, but about halfway through they switched and issued us Rocky boots with Gortex and 800gram Thinsulate. Very nice boots! All I had to return when I PCS'd in 1994 was the parka.