Crew Uniforms and Side Arms Questions

[notlaw99]

What does the current missile crew uniform look like, can any one post a picture? In the early 70s after the missile whites, we had the Blue Fatigues aka the Cub Scout uniform or the cavalry uniform. When were were driving to Oscar 01 in the 490th SMS to pull an alert we stopped at the Fergus Mercantile [General Store, Gas Station and Post Office] one old geezer inside asked if we wanted to take some magazines up to the cavalry post.

Are missile crews still using snub nose 38's as side arms or have they upgraded to the 9mm Beretta?

[Deuce till Death]

Ahhh the good old days. Today we are wearing the same green flight suit the pilots wear and even have the same leather jacket. Personally I liked the blue bag and the black leather jacket but I am one of those old fogies that a certain OG at Malmstrom criticized for not wanting to change the Missile badge.

No more .38s so no more accidental discharges or making light loads and shooting rubber bullets in the capsule. Not that I ever did that

[Macula]

Back in 98 (when they redid the security AFSPCI) there was a section in there to give us (crewmembers) weapons again. Not for downstairs but when we were couring cookies or codes. All OG commanders nonconcurred streneously to this and thus the paragraph was dropped.

I guess they remember the "quick draw" at 2am..

Macula

[ICBMGuy]

There is only one thing scarier than 18 year cops carrying guns.......and that would be crew members carrying guns. It seems after all this time that someone finally realized that guns in the capsule served no real purpose. If someone was going to make it by the cops topside and through the blast door downstairs.....a .38 wasn't going to stop them. The idea of shooting your deputy was real.....but then they had a RIF in the early 90's and got rid of the majority of slackers. (I guess I was lucky enough to slip through the cracks)

[JRumple]

I heard that one time in the white uniform with the hammer loop, that a whole group dispatching from a squadron hung hammers from the loop and walked into Pre-D, much to the chagrin of the Ops Group Commander.

Anyone else heard of this?

[AE]

I heard the same rumor. Of course it wasn't the "ops group commander" back in those days, it was the Deputy Commander for Operations (more commonly referred to as the DO). The crew whites had hammer loops because, believe it or not, the Air Force initially purchased actual painter coveralls from commercial vendors for the missile crews. They were the only thing available to fill the need at the time and it was the expedient thing to do. Most of the missile officers back in the very early sixties were rated, but can you imagine what the response would have been if one of them would have suggested that missile crews wear flight suits for their duty uniform? I can almost hear the laughter...

[WilliamB]

Until I read these posts, I did not know the alert crews no longer had .38s. Back in 1969 to 1972 we had a mix of regular length barrels and snub nose at the sites. There were a lot of articles written at that time about those "Dr. Strangelove type" missile crews. There was always speculation that the crews were armed to shoot the other member if he tried to turn the keys or if he didn't when he was supposed to. Now as I understood it, we were armed because there was a requirement that the Sealed Authenticator System (SAS or Codes) had to be under 24 hour armed guard. Since we always had visitors, MIMS, and the facilities manager down at various times, we were guarding the SAS while they were in the capsule. We had qualifiy once a year at the pistol range.

Crew blues? I rather liked them since no one else in the AF wore them and it made us unique and they were comfortable. Being two piece was nice since a lot of crews took off the shirt and put on a sweat shirt since the capsules were kept so cold. I wore my crew blues when ever I could. When I wore them they were not covered in patches. Besides the standard blue cloth US Air Force and name tag and rank, we only had a squadron patch and missile patch. The real missile patch, not that space thing they have now. Space? How can you be in space when you are working 70 feet underground? At first we were issued the same flight jackets the B-52 crews had but they took them back when they started running short. The flight jackets were nice when it was chilly in Minot but too warm for your parka, like May.

Armed crew members scary? Well there were a few problems when we were changing codes and all the crews going had to be armed. Like 20 armed crew members storming the same convience store for Oreos and Twinkies.

Once thing that stood out to me when I visited F E Warren during the AAFM reunion was everyone wearing battle dress fatigues. When I was in you saw Class B (Class pants and a dark blue shirt) in the winter and kakais in the summer.

I just checked my upstairs closet, none of this worn in 34 years.

4 sets of crew blues (742nd Squadron patch)

1 set green fatigues (wore them once I think)

Class A blouse (Presidental Unit Citation with Oak Leaf Cluster, Outstanding Unit Citation with two Oak Leaf Clusters, National Defense Medal, and Small Arms Expert Medal)

2 light blue class A shirts

1 dark blue class B shirt

1 Mess Dress (needed it once in 3 years, bought it from a roomate and had to paint the 2nd Lt. bars silver with model airplane paint)

1 very yellowed white Mess Dress shirt.

Not sure where my kakais or grey squadron scarf went to. Well that's enough, time for bed.

[abrumalub]

When I came on crew we were wearing the crew blue fatigues with the basball caps and we were armed only when the blast door was open or we had guests. When Gen Chain took over as CINCSAC he had some suggestion program (I can't remember what it was called) where if the HQ couldn't think of a reason not to do it within something like 48 or 72 hours, the suggestion would be implemented. That's how the guns for crewmembers went away. That's also how we went from authenticating to get downstairs to just a plain old VCN.

Right around '89 we switched over to the blue bag uniform with the gortex blue jacket. It was great, very comfortable, it looked good, and we still looked unique. When did they switch over to the standard green flight suit?

[Dog O'Crewdom]

We lost the .38s when the Air Force dropped them from the inventory. They were too cheap to buy us 9mm. That's it, just a pure economic decision.

[keyturner400]

We went to the flight suits 1 October 2000. The economy of scale made them cheaper than the blue bags, and they are of better quality. I liked the distinct image, though, especially with the black jacket that never was.

[ICBMGuy]

I am not sure I would agree with the statement "they are of better quality". The green bags seem to fall apart just as fast as the blue bags did.

[Cancellier]

Especially the middle, right?

Sorry, had to jump in there, Boss.

Anyway, because the Crewbag was a local purchase deal, the quality varied widely base to base. My Vandy bags were terrible, but the Grand Forks bags worked pretty well. I still have the last one I was issued in the plastic bag just in case...

[SAC Killer]

What I really remember about the weapons is the belts & holsters they gave us. The belts were huge: must have been for 40" waists, and there was no way to shorten them. Believe it or not they could have been adjusted longer. Worn "around" the waist, the weapon hung low. The belt was in constant danger of slipping off your hip and falling to the floor. I always found this ironic given the attention they paid to anyone who was overweight.

Some crews tried wearing the belts over their shoulders a-la James Bond. Not only was it less prone to dropping; it would also be easier to draw when sitting in the chair. When the Colonels found out about that they nixed it of course. "Weapons shall be worn around the waist."

In maintenance they were more sensible, and used belts that fit better and, being wider, were more comfortable. But in maintenance, when you carried a weapon, you carried it for a LOOOOONNNNNNGGGG time.

[MOD]

Economics was one reason why SAC got rid of the pistols...but leadership also didn't like them.

I heard rumors that a MCCM accidently fired a round in an LCC at F.E. Warren (sometime in the 80s I believe). Thankfully, no one was hurt...and after what I heard was a failed attempt to cover it up, it was discovered and the MCCM was appropriately hammered. At my wing, we were forbidden to remove the pistols or to even unstrap the hammer strap unless we intended to use it. But, "gun play" did occur nevertheless.

After that, some senior leaders looked for an opportunity to get rid of them, and the fall of the Berlin wall amongst other things, sealed the deal.

[SAC Killer]

After the weapons were removed from the capsules, did you still have to pack when couriering tickets or panels? Because the principal cost of those ancient beat up revolvers was in the annual qualification. Unless they didn't want to replace them with the 9mm.