disable/enable

[bedbug]

Chuck: Was you on a missile crew, if so what years?


Can you verify how long a missile set in the silo loaded? Thought I had read the longest
was 8 to 10 years.

[SAC Killer]

Well, now that I think about it they didn't actually removed ALL pyro. The removed the vernier and translation rockets, and safed the rest in place. Removing everything would have taken quite a while. There were an astonishing number of pyrotechnic and explosive devices on Titan II.

Same-o same-o for Minuteman, and I'm not sure it is possible to remove all the Minuteman pyros without taking the bird and LF apart. Being larger, Titan probably had more of them, though.

You guys also had a bigger warhead. I remember my old 321SMW wing/CC, Col Frank "Barry" Horton, being quoted in the media. Referring to the Titan II warhead: "It would have some effect."

To my knowledge, he never said that about Minuteman. But we tended to appreciate his dry humor.

[Penson]

Indeed. Nine megatons would most certainly get your attention. Still, Titan II could only guarantee delivery to within 1 NM. That's why it had to be so big. MM, on the other hand, could almost drop one down someone's chimney. So 250-350 kt could do the job nicely.

[Penson]

>> Was you on a missile crew, if so what years?

Have never been in the armed services. Was in that Vietnam generation that got to pick lottery numbers. Picked 297.
What I know about Titan II I have figured out by hanging out at the museum and poking around in the archives.

>>Can you verify how long a missile set in the silo loaded? Thought I had read the longest
>>was 8 to 10 years.

Hmm. I'll have to look up that one, but 8 to 10 sounds about right. I'll get back to you on that.

[SAC Killer]

Indeed. Nine megatons would most certainly get your attention. Still, Titan II could only guarantee delivery to within 1 NM. That's why it had to be so big. MM, on the other hand, could almost drop one down someone's chimney. So 250-350 kt could do the job nicely.

In fact it was developing the small warhead, originally the Mark 11, that motivated the powers that be to develop the Minuteman. Along with a strong desire to have a system that could react very quickly compared to previous systems. And going to a solid fuel system that could be deployed much more quickly than equivalent liquid fuelled systems, because the solids are so much simpler to manufacture.

In any event, dropping either one on you could spoil your whole day.

[njh621]

The WCP could not interact with the BVLC in any way but maybe they did have monitoring capability. I just can't remember how though as I do not remember any hard lines other than the PAS that fed back to base.

I can answer that. Recently, I've figured out how the IRCS (Intersite Radio Communications System) operated, and what exactly was transmitted over it. The PAS, 465L, and the BLV Status Encoder information was transmitted through the IRCS, along with some complex to complex and complex to ACP/WCP traffic was routed through the IRCS, which operated on both VHF and UHF frequencies on a single antenna (which is why there were cavity filters on level 3). As far as I know at this point, there weren't any hard lines between sites, unlike Minuteman (which had the HICS). The only lines going out from the site were the phone/dial lines (1 at the BLX, and 2 at the ACP), and at the ACP they were hardened approximately 4.7 nautical miles from the site (not sure how much good that would do).

[Penson]

<SNIP> The PAS, 465L, and the BLV Status Encoder information was transmitted through the IRCS, along with some complex to complex and complex to ACP/WCP traffic was routed through the IRCS, ,SNIP>

I'll look into this to be sure, but I think BVL status was transmitted via soft wireline (along with ACK/CALL, the control for which was mounted on the BVL status encoder panel). My reason for thinking this is that the only IRCS transmitting capability at a BLX was via F-5, which transmitted only hard voice.

[Penson]

<SNIP> The PAS, 465L, and the BLV Status Encoder information was transmitted through the IRCS, along with some complex to complex and complex to ACP/WCP traffic was routed through the IRCS, ,SNIP>

I'll look into this to be sure, but I think BVL status was transmitted via soft wireline (along with ACK/CALL, the control for which was mounted on the BVL status encoder panel). My reason for thinking this is that the only IRCS transmitting capability at a BLX was via F-5, which transmitted only hard voice.

I checked with a former USAF comms guy who volunteers with the museum and he confirmed what I suspected. The BVL was monitored via soft wireline. I know that sounds incredible, but it is true. The AF used the abandoned copper pairs leftover from the old LES system--yes, it too was controlled with soft wire.

Speaking of soft wirelines, I have a great photo of a Western Electric landline communications cabinet (at ACP 2, 571-1) standing out in the open in the middle of the desert WAY OUTSIDE the fence. Guess that wasn't part of the hardened wires running out there. If I could figure out how to post a photo here, I would.

[njh621]

At the bottom of the message box, there is a thing that says "Upload Attachment". If you find that picture, and upload it, it will appear in the message. Me personally, I upload my files to Flickr (Yahoo owns Flickr, and I use Yahoo mail, so the same ID works for both sites) and use the insert image (img) function, and just add the URL of the picture. First method is probably the easiest. ACP site photos are always welcome ....

The fact that the LES (and later the BVL) used soft lines seems like another odd design error, up there with the fact that the Fuel Pump timer was in the access portal, or that the diesel fuel tank (the one on level 5, not the day tank) wasn't shock mounted.

[Penson]

The fact that the LES (and later the BVL) used soft lines seems like another odd design error, up there with the fact that the Fuel Pump timer was in the access portal, or that the diesel fuel tank (the one on level 5, not the day tank) wasn't shock mounted.

Indeed. Seems to me they had plenty of bandwidth on the IRCS.

Thanks for the tip on attaching photos.

[njh621]

I checked with a former USAF comms guy who volunteers with the museum and he confirmed what I suspected. The BVL was monitored via soft wireline. I know that sounds incredible, but it is true. The AF used the abandoned copper pairs leftover from the old LES system--yes, it too was controlled with soft wire.

Thinking of it now, that makes some sense. The only thing that would disturb the cable would be (in a worse case scenario, and by the time a detonation occurred, I'm sure the missile would be on its way to Russia) a nuclear detonation, or a not-so-bad scenario something like farmer Fred accidentally digging up the cable . Otherwise the cable would be safe. Now granted, I think it's odd that such a critical system didn't have a backup, but maybe the Air Force figured they didn't need one.

[njh621]

A former crew-member thinks that the BVL status might also have been transmitted on F1. Is there a possibility that there was a modification inside the F5 transmitter cabinet to include the BVL status as well?

[Penson]

A former crew-member thinks that the BVL status might also have been transmitted on F1. Is there a possibility that there was a modification inside the F5 transmitter cabinet to include the BVL status as well?

No.

[Megawatt]

Base command post could disable the missile? Was that over land lines? What else could they do?

Cory

That system was canned in the early 70's and the Butterfly Valve Lock and Butterfly Valve Lock control was installed after some brite crew dog showed a touring Congressman that they could go to level three of the LCC, turn off one or two breakers and then just turn keys.

The BVL system required the enable codes that were sent inside the messages for the Minuteman, although the enlisted crew had to decode the items from the message into the site-specific unlock value.

Once the BVL system was installed the base had no idea as to the status of any sorite as the entire monitoring system from the old stuff was gutted and the cabinets on level three were empty.

The LES system, was a radio system with two separate signals. You are totally correct that anyone with basic electronic wiring diagrams (we had them all) could bypass the system. There was actually a section in one of the T.O.'s that outlined how to bypass the key switches so that if there was a malfunction you could use a jumper wire. I believe that the LES system originally used the presence of a signal to prevent launch, but later was changed, it has been a long time since 1968. As I remember, there were a number of separate receivers in the LES on the lower level of the LCC, behind the M-G.

[njh621]

At the ACP, there were additional LES cabinets that formed a right angle between the 487L and the 465L SACCS. There is a picture of 570-5 pre-CSS posted elsewhere in the section. The breaker box for the LES equipment was CC-3A, located to the right of the door to the cable vault on CC LVL-3.

Based on what you said there is evidence to support that the LES was a radio and wire system. As someone explained to me you would get a disable signal from the ACP and the WCP. WCP was probably wire and ACP probably transmitted via radio. That could explain those extra receivers by the MG.