Titan II's used as decoys?

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Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby jimmymac on Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:45 pm

I recently heard a man talking about Titan II and he remarked that a certain percentage of them were strictly decoys and never had a nuke on top. Anyone else ever heard of anything like that?
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:20 pm

I never have. And given there were only 54, the likelihood that even one in each wing would be a decoy strikes me as highly unlikely. Did he have a story for why they were decoys?

I know Whiteman had non-nuke payloads on some in the 510th SMS--those were the Emergency Rocket Communication System birds, and we didn't need to know which ones or how many they were.
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby Capt. Bill on Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:44 pm

I doubt that too about some being decoys. I know at Minot in the early 1970, Oscar-06 did not have a warhead but that is because it was used as a training LF
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby SAC Killer on Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:57 pm

TerrorOfTucson wrote:I never have. And given there were only 54, the likelihood that even one in each wing would be a decoy strikes me as highly unlikely. Did he have a story for why they were decoys?

I know Whiteman had non-nuke payloads on some in the 510th SMS--those were the Emergency Rocket Communication System birds, and we didn't need to know which ones or how many they were.


It was no secret there were six ERCS birds, but the LFs that had them was classified TS at the time. Regarding TII having dummy warheads, IMHO that's just crazy talk.
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby HJJ on Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:15 pm

Remember the old pitch & de-pitch rockets on Stage II? Could that be it?
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:56 pm

Seems unlikely to me, HJJ. They don't show, externally. They'd be very expensive decoys, if fired, and moderately obvious if never fueled (and still really expensive) to to be a "decoy" on the ground. I can't see the point, or any usefulness.

jimmymac, can you give us more information, like why he thought that?
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby jimmymac on Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:12 pm

The man I spoke with had spent his life working in the nuke industry. Pretty close to the atomic bombs. The way he said it, led me to believe that he knew a lot more that was classified. His comment was something about that we knew how many nukes we needed, so by having decoys it made it look like we had more. His comment surprised me.
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby SAC Killer on Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:28 pm

jimmymac wrote:The man I spoke with had spent his life working in the nuke industry. Pretty close to the atomic bombs. The way he said it, led me to believe that he knew a lot more that was classified. His comment was something about that we knew how many nukes we needed, so by having decoys it made it look like we had more. His comment surprised me.


Seems to me anything about decoys would be highly classified. Doesn't matter now, since TII is gone.
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby silo warrior on Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:43 am

I know when TITAN II was first deployed there where decoys on the bird. Im not sure of the time frame but they were removed after a while when it was discovered that they did not work. As far as the sorties being dummy decoys I don't believe that it would not have made much since to fund a fully loaded sortie just as a decoy unless we were taking a page from Dirty Harry was it five or was it six to tell you the truth in all this confusion I lost track too. The question you have to ask yourself is do you feel lucky well do you IVAN?

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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby bedbug on Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:17 am

In the 60's there was always remarks, etc. at DM that if we had more than 1 T-II down for service.

They had to use MMM's to fill in. Wing command post controlled when any T-II was to be taken

off alert. I don't know if they just reported it to SAC or if they got approval from SAC.
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:48 am

I don't recall being told at Sheppard or Vberg that TII had had decoys loaded.
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby silo warrior on Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:50 am

bedbug wrote:In the 60's there was always remarks, etc. at DM that if we had more than 1 T-II down for service.

They had to use MMM's to fill in. Wing command post controlled when any T-II was to be taken

off alert. I don't know if they just reported it to SAC or if they got approval from SAC.


If I remember right we had thirty minutes to bring the sortie back to ready. If it was going to be longer than thirty minutes we had to call the command post and report the sortie was not ready. The command post would then up channel the report to Sac. I only had one sortie that we had to call not ready the guidance went not ready after all the trouble shooting and trying to bring the guidance back up it was still a no go. It required a autopilot swap out. Took about twelve hours to get it back to ready. I remember we could hear up channel reports of helping hands and other items that went to SAC on the PAS. I never did hear any sorties being called not ready over the PAS. I don't know how the Command Post called sorties not ready to SAC.

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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby silo warrior on Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:09 am

TerrorOfTucson wrote:I don't recall being told at Sheppard or Vberg that TII had had decoys loaded.


We were told at Shepard that there had been decoys on the RV but after testing they found out that they actually made it easier to spot the actual R V so they were removed. How they worked or the actual dates they were removed was above my pay grade I know they were gone before I got on crew.

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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby bedbug on Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:48 pm

The decoys were removed in 1975. With no decoys the translation rockets were no longer needed and they were also removed. Decoys were no longer needed after ABMs were outlawed in 1972.

Per THE TITAN II HANDBOOK by Chuck Penson
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Re: Titan II's used as decoys?

Postby Capt. Bill on Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:33 am

Minuteman III had a MIRV configuration with two decoys, but I don't know if they were ever deployed.
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