Deja Vu All Over again

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Deja Vu All Over again

Postby Batman on Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:45 pm

Russia's Terrifying 'Nuke Trains' Will Be Roving The Rails By 2018
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia ... 1675562485

Banned under the previous STARTII treaty, but not excluded in 2011's New START treaty, Russia is pulling from its Soviet strategic playbook and reviving the intercontinental ballistic missile toting, hiding in plain sight, 'Nuke Train' concept.
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby MajorG1000 on Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:25 am

There is a reason the United States chose not to implement the MX Mobile Rail System, or any other Shell Game strategies when placing our ICBMs. First and foremost, it is prohibitively expensive to build and maintain the infrastructure needed to support this type of Weapon System deployment. Although GPS and other technologies have come a significant way in thirty years, you still have to use planned for target sets and known launch points...or your CEP will suffer. The article speaks of MIRV capability, yet aren't MIRVed ICBMs significantly reduced if not entirely banned by treaty, and isn't that one of the reasons we got rid of the Peacekeeper? As with any operational Weapon System there are teething problems that cannot and have not been planned for, and will have to be faced once the Nuke Train becomes a viable operational system.
If the Russians are are building this system and do plan on deploying it throughout Russia, one has to wonder what they are cutting in order to pay for it as it seems to me that the Rubel has all the value right now of a Cleveland Steamer. I am not saying they cannot build and deploy it, or that they won't in some manner make it work. What I am saying is that it seems like a lot of hyperbole coming from a man and a nation that prides itself on bombast, ego and pride.
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby bedbug on Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:45 am

Thought he was going to be to busy with NATO to think about the US.

Would a short range system for EURO countries on rail be easier.
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:52 am

PootyPoot thinks big. I do wonder about the strength and reliability of his rail system (and the rail installation.substructure/quality of construction), and suspect it's not as good as ours. Still, he doesn't have hundreds/thousands of enemy agents out in his wilderness, which we would have had if we'd built the rail garrison.
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby silo warrior on Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:55 pm

Wow!!! Can you say Missile Gap looks like what goes around comes around .

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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby hockey85 on Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:28 pm

MajorG1000 wrote:The article speaks of MIRV capability, yet aren't MIRVed ICBMs significantly reduced if not entirely banned by treaty, and isn't that one of the reasons we got rid of the Peacekeeper?


MIRVs were only banned under START II, which never was ratified by both sides so it never entered into force, even though we got rid of Peacekeeper to help comply with the spirit of the treaty. I suspect the anti-nuke culture of the Air Force and military in general helped influence that decision during that time.

New START doesn't ban MIRVs. It only sets a total warhead number limit but leaves it up to each side to configure and load out missiles as they see fit. We chose to deMIRV while Russia did not.
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby silo warrior on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:23 pm

Kind of funny received my copy of Classic Toy Trains magazine today. They have an article in there about Lionel in 1961 and there toy train set with Mobile Minuteman missiles. It has a little bit of history about how the Air Force planned on deploying the rail system back in the early sixties. I guess what is old is new again.

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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby hockey85 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:13 pm

The Malmstrom AFB museum has a model Minuteman missile train on display. It was donated by someone, I can't remember who, and is an awesome addition to all that is on display. 8)
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby MajorG1000 on Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:01 pm

Thank you for the clarification, Hockey.
Check on EBay...you should see what the Lionel Minuteman Train cars sell for...
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:06 pm

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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby MajorG1000 on Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:30 pm

I am skeptical as well, not that it cannot be done. I'm sure it can. But is it worth the cost and maintenance requirements that it would take to keep this Weapon System viable? The ability to maintain a uniform and controlled temperature alone on a moving platform like this would be problematical, let alone the moving mechanisms which raise and move the ICBM. Unless of course they were "Bunkered" somewhere between being shuttled. In that case it is a matter of targeting those bunkers...but I don't think (based upon the first article) it's what the Russians have in mind. They are doing what they did in the 1980s and 90s...spending precious Rubles on a military infrastructure that cannot and need not be maintained. Russia will be better served when Putin is gone.
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:53 am

Last I heard, many years ago, Russki rail lines, unlike ours, do not have rock fill between ties (there's a word for that, not recalling right now--bedding, I think). I suspect the maintenance doesn't keep up with the frost heaves, or the low-quality workmanship on the lines in the beginning. The remnants of the Commie system, expressed as "we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us."
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby Batman on Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:49 pm

The word you're trying to remember is "ballast." It's a fairly durable rock such as granite broken into roughly two-inch chunks. AAR spec requires at least six inches below the ties as well as filling in between them.

Frost heaves are a problem everywhere they occur; our railroads are not immune. I suspect you're right though, the Russians didn't bother much with spec when they laid their track, and maintenance was/is nil. Large long-haul U.S. freight railroads, on the other hand, inspect annually and rebuild track as needed; usually every two to five years. There are still some sections that are as bumpy as a roller coaster ride...
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:32 pm

Off the immediate topic, but appropriate, addressing the current value of the ruble and the Russian economy:
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/01 ... formula-1/
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Re: Deja Vu All Over again

Postby Batman on Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:08 pm

Interesting article. And an F1 track? What for, snowmobile races?

Seriously, it does neglect to mention that the Chinese Government (through its Central Bank) is financing the Russian Central Bank ruble buyback. Using our debt paper and their empty apartment blocks and industrial parks for collateral. The whole mess could melt down overnight, IMO.
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