Report on Nuke Units & etc.

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Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:08 am

http://afmissileers.com/warble/wtone/index.html

Go to The Current ICBM Force, and at the end of the para, click on the red-text link that says "here".

I like what it says. I hope those things happen.
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby MajorG1000 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:13 am

I wasn't going to read the whole report, but it was so well written and informative I couldn't put it down.
I was especially interested in the sections covering PRP and Risk Avoidance. It is clear that the team of inspectors feel that those at the ground level, (maintainers and crew members) are doing their jobs with a great amount of pride and ownership...that they understand and feel they are part of the Nuclear mission. I have no reason to refute that. What struck me as particularly interesting is how the idea of "Less time in the trenches gets you promoted" correlates to what is currently going on in our Public Education System as related to a story I heard on NPR today. Education Administrators seem to spend little if any time in the classroom, yet move "up the chain rapidly" and ultimately dictate how teachers are to teach. There is a disconnect there which is eerily parallel to what we are seeing, and was written up in this report. Making do, along with "business as usual" and risk aversion have clearly become the nemisis of the Missile Career field.
I grew up with, and only knew "Dual Qualified" as a way to get into DOV or DOTI. Apparently, it will be re-instated as part of theis review. I think it is a good thing. You didn't get into the shop until you sat in both seats and had the credibility of time, training and a good number of alerts under your belt. It was alarming to see that the team recommended "giving back" responsibility of growning one's DMCCC to the MCCC. That should never have been something that was lost. I know that as a DMCCC, I was attached by a bungee cord to my Commanders, and as a Commander did the same with my Deputies. At work or during Squadron functions we were together. I remember many hours of self study in the T.O. or at DO22...but when I was done, my Crew Partner and I got together to review together to make sure we were on the same page and make our, what's the word...Ah Yes: "Crew Coordination" as smooth as possible.
That the reviewers see that lack of career opportunity, job recognition, and the downside of Missile Base locations, and are willing to address these items head on is laudible.
I too hope the changes are made; swiftly and with great fanfare.
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby FL Transplant on Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:33 am

MajorG1000: one problem during my time on crew was the continual shuffling of MCCC/DMCCCs. People were recrewed so constantly that it was difficult to get enough days of supervision to accomplish OERs on the required (every six months for LTs) interval. Made it difficult to get much mentoring/training as a Deputy from a Commander; you could pick up some techniques or ways of doing something, but there was no long-term investment on either party’s side.

There were certainly some exceptions where a Deputy was crewed with a Commander for a Long (six-month +) period, but those were the exceptions.
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby MajorG1000 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:26 pm

FL Transplant: You are certainly correct about the shuffling. I didn't have some fifteen checkrides because I enjoyed the visits from DOV. In fact, just before I went into DOTI, my SQ CC actually THANKED me for being the Squadron "Mule" for bringing along so many Deputies. That having been said, except for the last 6 or so months on line crew, my crew pairings lasted from 4 to 6 months. I was on line crew for 3 to 3 and a half years, then into the shop and finally my last year was on Wing Staff, with a total of 5 years at Minot. That three or so years on line crew was due in part to having a "Dual Qualified" system in place at the time.
However, that did not reduce the responsibility I had (or was expected to display) toward whomever was my current crew partner. Some of the guys were great; some as dumb as a box of rocks, but they all needed to be brought up to speed and the best way to do that was to spend a lot of time together...which we did. We didn't look at it as "Time at the office vs time off", we saw it as doing what was required to be proficient at our jobs and doing whatever it took to be so. I guess I just never wanted to be the guy or the crew that was talked about for leaving the capsule a shambles or configured incorrectly; they guy who couldn't add or subtract in "Base 6" or who had problems with PLSO. This came from those Commanders I respected (which was most of them), and I adopted that as my way of being a MCCC as well. I would bet that if you looked over your crew pairings, you were pretty much the same way. Most of the guys I knew were like that while on crew... Those that weren't didn't stay long in Missiles or even the Air Force. I don't think that they would have much to say in these forums, and as far as I can tell, they don't post in here. There are things that make people work together, and things that Commanders SHOULD be responsible in devloping in thier Deputies. A-Paging the T.O. is a perfect example. If my Deputy's T.O. were ever out of compliance, it was MY responsibility...I took the hit. With that in mind it really doesn't matter how long you are crewed together, but the amount of "quality time" you can squeeze out of the time you have together. It would be interesting to see exactly how our experiences were to what is currently in place.
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:21 pm

The shortest time I had a DMCCC was a month. I was told I was given him because "I could survive him". It was only a month, the Ops Officer told me, because the dep came to him after the first alert and said "I've got to get off that crew!" I'm supposing it was sharpening my kitchen knives on alert that did it.
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby MajorG1000 on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:12 pm

I laugh because I had one "short term" Deputy as well. He was uncrewed with me because it was determined that he needed "remedial training" in almost every aspect of ICBM operations after a few rides and one alert. The one alert I remember particularly well as I was on my sleep shift when the capsule suddenly and most definately shut down and then came back up on line. I jumped out of bed to see my Deputy closing the locking tabs on an equipment drawer. He sheepishly told me he was looking for "the porn drawer". We then had a long discussion about pulling out draws and shoving them back in; unsequential start-ups and career disipation lights. Come to think of it, it wasn't really a discussion, as he couldn't get a word in edgewise while I screamed Bloody Hell at him. Job Control had us running system tests all night, but the capsule checked out alright in the end. All I really remember about him is his first name, and that he had a Psychology Degree. No, his first name wasn't "Phil"...
CDB-63 742 SMS DMCCC/MCCC 1980 - 1983
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:45 am

I remember both of the dep's names. and the name of the guy who got him after me; and when he passed me in the hall he'd say "Only 8/7/6/5/4/3/2/ more alerts". That dep told us more than we ever wanted to know about Edgar Cayce, The Sleeping Prophet.
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby MajorG1000 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:42 pm

Admittedly, as hard as they tried to screen Crew Members before sending them to the units as "Combat Ready", some who shouldn't have been slipped through the cracks. That or they developed questionable traits while on crew. But really, if it weren't for them, we wouldn't have half of our "War Stories", and missiles would have indeed been much more boring.
CDB-63 742 SMS DMCCC/MCCC 1980 - 1983
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:03 pm

I was told a previous/early MCCC was Zoomie with a bad attitude and was getting out. The teller was a MMM classmate of mine; no great shakes as a missileer, looked askance at my some, retired as O-6--so I take that as true story.
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby MajorG1000 on Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:14 pm

One wonders what will happen now that Sec Hagel is stepping aside.
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:53 am

Nothing better, I expect. Likely worse, as Yes-men seem preferred.
Bad Sam
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:37 am

Bad Sam
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby Batman on Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:22 pm

TerrorOfTucson wrote:Nothing better, I expect. Likely worse, as Yes-men seem preferred.


I worked under Flournoy when she was USD(P). That's the #3 spot in OSD. She wasn't bad; cared about her people a lot. And capable.
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby MajorG1000 on Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:40 pm

I was listening to a broadcast about why Hagel may have been asked to leave or has decided to step down. Hagel was hired to see that bringing home the troops and downsizing the military from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan went smoothly. He did that, and quite well. When the mission began to change due to ISIS and Syria and America was required to begin the painful build up toward national defense due to an overt threat, Hagel didn't do as well. Couple this with the Nuclear fiasco within the Air Force and Navy, and I would imagine he burned out very quickly. There are very few actors on the stage who can be all things to all people: Our Current and past four Presidents exemplify this very well.
CDB-63 742 SMS DMCCC/MCCC 1980 - 1983
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Re: Report on Nuke Units & etc.

Postby TerrorOfTucson on Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:42 pm

Bad Sam
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